I am not anti law enforcement by any means, butttt, it really seems like there has been a change in how LEOs perceives the public. I contend that LEOs now (post Patriot Act) seems to see John and Jane Public as a threat and interact with us in a military type of fashion. They are trained to dupe and intimidate the public into giving up their constitutional rights mainly the 4th Amendment. The pendulum has swung too far and the public needs to know their rights and respectively assert them with their interactions with LEOs. I hope Desantis and the legislature does not accept the proposed compromise and ratifies the law as Desantis originally proposed it. Thanks for bringing this issue to the boating public.
While I'm not opposed to introducing the Standard Macarena Sobriety Test (S-MST) for younger mariners, Ivan, I feel that for diversity, equity and inclusion (if that's still a thing), the Nutbush City Limits Protocol (NCL-P) should also be accepted -- along with any breakdancing move that scored points in the Paris Olympics.
For fairness though, Florida should exclude any dance ever attempted by my countrywoman Raygun as part of a competitive sport. At home, we've seen her perform her Olympic routine after six Bacardis and it's the same.
Ruv, I apologize for my belated response. I didn’t see it till now. I love your post. Got a big laugh out of it. As a Bob Segar fan I will consent to Nutbush City limits protocol, if when a LEO questions my sobriety. Grinning while I type. Great response.
1) While this unfortunate incident (apparent wrongful arrest) has the pendulum of public opinion swinging against pro-active enforcement, keep in mind that hundreds die from boat crashes every year, and alcohol (operating a boat under the influence) is a leading cause of fatal boat crashes. The next multi-fatal boat wreck caused by a drunk boater will surely swing that pendulum the other way.
2) Simply proposing / mandating a new field sobriety task won't fly in court. Since the typical (and judicially recognized) roadside tasks aren't feasible aboard boats, there was a long and costly validation process of the present battery of seated tasks - studies to correlate task errors with impairment so as to develop actual probable cause.
3) Unlike while operating a vehicle on the roads, Florida does not prohibit so-called 'open container' - anyone of age, even the vessel operator, can have a beer in one hand and the steering wheel in the other. That deprives law enforcement of an objectively reasonable cause to investigate ("Is that boater on beer #1 of the day...or #11?) (..."That guy just FLEW past the cops waving at them with a beer in one hand and the wheel in the other...and they didn't do anything..." Yup.)
4) Vessel equipment safety checks - related controversial issue. Of course they can be (mis)-used as an unofficial field sobriety assessment. However, safety equipment on cars and trucks is all installed permanently in the vehicle by the manufacturer and does not vary.
Required vessel safety equipment varies by number of people aboard (one life jacket per person), the body size of passengers (kids need life jackets that fit properly). Required safety equipment varies by location (ocean vs inland waters) and weather / time of day (lights). Most of the safety equipment does NOT come with the boat and is easily added / removed / forgotten. Hence an argument can be made for enforcement checks, particularly with small children on board.
I hope this summary helps us all past the 8-second sound bite / knee jerk reactions flourishing now.
PS - "Mullet Sheriff" is a new one on me...it was "Grouper Trooper" in my day!
I appreciate your thoughtful comments, but I have to confess that this story is satire. When I read that a sober guy could fail the field test and then I read what these tests consisted of, I got the feeling I might not pass either, sober or not. I figured they might as well just ask me to do the Macarena for gosh sakes. Sorry, Curtis. It was a goof.
Curtis, although Peter's post was meant humorously, his satire is built on the underlying challenges of policing recreational boating, so I thought the article and your response were both relevant. Thank you then, for a serious discussion of the issues. Here's some additional perspective.
In my country of Australia there is no legal impediment to law enforcement administering breath alcohol tests to anyone responsible for the operation of a boat once it's underway -- including while the boat may be drifting. The laws, thresholds and procedures are set state by state, but have been harmonised over time. Breath tests require no probable cause either -- they can be administered 'randomly', or while stopping a vehicle or craft for any other reason, and that has been accepted for forty years now. If while operating a vehicle in Australia, you refuse a lawfully-administered breath test then you may be arrested and administered a blood test instead. (We have saliva tests for drugs too, although they're less reliable.)
Although the same law enforcement bodies administer marine and road breath-tests, the licenses were established separately and even combined licenses are administered separately -- so failing an alcohol test could lose you a boat license without losing a road-driver's license, or vice-versa.
Consequently though, we have no 'Macarena' test anywhere in Australia. By itself, failing such a test would prove nothing in a law court as it doesn't meet our standard for evidence, and to a population that has accepted random breath testing (RBT) for four decades, Macarena tests can look invasive, humiliating and potentially unfair to law-abiding citizens.
Perhaps that's why the humour was immediately apparent to me.
How UNFAIR of you to compare a country (such as Australia) whose government provides adult supervision to one whose government does not / cannot / won't (USA, and especially Florida!).
We have been telling our young adult children since the 2016 election to research alternate countries that work for them, and we'll help them relocate, painful though that is to admit and contemplate.
> UNFAIR of you to compare a country (such as Australia) whose government provides adult supervision
I agree that it's supervision, Curtis. We're subjects as well as citizens, former convicts after all, and our first and only national coup was over rum. Finding adults among the many lifetime politicians in our legislature can be a harder task though.
Among our recreational sailors I'd say it's the mixed bag that it seems to be in other places, just with fewer liveaboards (due to not too many marinas), different boat brands, bigger crocogators, a few great white sharks for variety, and a LOT more sandbars everywhere.
If adult supervision has produced more mature maritime behaviour here then it has yet to register for me. (Nevertheless, Peter's humorous, US-focused articles about conspicuously naive cruisers do make me feel better.)
Regardless, whatever our sailing immaturity, we can blame it less here on beer.
We defense lawyers have always known that the gaze nystagmus test is total bullshit. When doctors do it, they use a special device, a giant protractor with a chin and forehead rest. This enables a precise measurement.
Even a trained medical doctor could not perform the gaze nystagmus test without tools to accurately measure the onset. Here's the catch. EVERYBODY HAS NYSTAGMUS! It is just the point at which it occurs that leads to a diagnosis of impairment. It requires precision, a degree of precision you just cannot get standing in front of someone with no tools or instruments. It is bullshit.
What we need is a pre-arrest breath test. The machines exist, just pass them out,
Although presumably the new legislation has not yet passed, I'm glad to see that pro-active citizens groups are already teaching revised Floridan boat-safety compliance to children.
Here too, a Floridan retirement community at an evening class rehearsing boat safety protocols for a forthcoming marine trip. (Perhaps they weren't aware of the grandparented birthdate clause?)
Haha. Perfect
The best satire is nearly indistinguishable from the truth.
I am not anti law enforcement by any means, butttt, it really seems like there has been a change in how LEOs perceives the public. I contend that LEOs now (post Patriot Act) seems to see John and Jane Public as a threat and interact with us in a military type of fashion. They are trained to dupe and intimidate the public into giving up their constitutional rights mainly the 4th Amendment. The pendulum has swung too far and the public needs to know their rights and respectively assert them with their interactions with LEOs. I hope Desantis and the legislature does not accept the proposed compromise and ratifies the law as Desantis originally proposed it. Thanks for bringing this issue to the boating public.
While I'm not opposed to introducing the Standard Macarena Sobriety Test (S-MST) for younger mariners, Ivan, I feel that for diversity, equity and inclusion (if that's still a thing), the Nutbush City Limits Protocol (NCL-P) should also be accepted -- along with any breakdancing move that scored points in the Paris Olympics.
For fairness though, Florida should exclude any dance ever attempted by my countrywoman Raygun as part of a competitive sport. At home, we've seen her perform her Olympic routine after six Bacardis and it's the same.
Ruv, I apologize for my belated response. I didn’t see it till now. I love your post. Got a big laugh out of it. As a Bob Segar fan I will consent to Nutbush City limits protocol, if when a LEO questions my sobriety. Grinning while I type. Great response.
Thank you for your kind reply, Ivan. I always try to ensure that my comments are worth what readers pay for them, and now I know that this one is.
No boarding without probable cause period.
I figured the Macarena bit was satire more typically penned for April Fools Day, but the underlying issues remain.
Maybe Florida is so inherently absurd that satire is camouflaged by its ambient goofiness
This is a difficult issue on several fronts
1) While this unfortunate incident (apparent wrongful arrest) has the pendulum of public opinion swinging against pro-active enforcement, keep in mind that hundreds die from boat crashes every year, and alcohol (operating a boat under the influence) is a leading cause of fatal boat crashes. The next multi-fatal boat wreck caused by a drunk boater will surely swing that pendulum the other way.
2) Simply proposing / mandating a new field sobriety task won't fly in court. Since the typical (and judicially recognized) roadside tasks aren't feasible aboard boats, there was a long and costly validation process of the present battery of seated tasks - studies to correlate task errors with impairment so as to develop actual probable cause.
3) Unlike while operating a vehicle on the roads, Florida does not prohibit so-called 'open container' - anyone of age, even the vessel operator, can have a beer in one hand and the steering wheel in the other. That deprives law enforcement of an objectively reasonable cause to investigate ("Is that boater on beer #1 of the day...or #11?) (..."That guy just FLEW past the cops waving at them with a beer in one hand and the wheel in the other...and they didn't do anything..." Yup.)
4) Vessel equipment safety checks - related controversial issue. Of course they can be (mis)-used as an unofficial field sobriety assessment. However, safety equipment on cars and trucks is all installed permanently in the vehicle by the manufacturer and does not vary.
Required vessel safety equipment varies by number of people aboard (one life jacket per person), the body size of passengers (kids need life jackets that fit properly). Required safety equipment varies by location (ocean vs inland waters) and weather / time of day (lights). Most of the safety equipment does NOT come with the boat and is easily added / removed / forgotten. Hence an argument can be made for enforcement checks, particularly with small children on board.
I hope this summary helps us all past the 8-second sound bite / knee jerk reactions flourishing now.
PS - "Mullet Sheriff" is a new one on me...it was "Grouper Trooper" in my day!
I appreciate your thoughtful comments, but I have to confess that this story is satire. When I read that a sober guy could fail the field test and then I read what these tests consisted of, I got the feeling I might not pass either, sober or not. I figured they might as well just ask me to do the Macarena for gosh sakes. Sorry, Curtis. It was a goof.
Curtis, although Peter's post was meant humorously, his satire is built on the underlying challenges of policing recreational boating, so I thought the article and your response were both relevant. Thank you then, for a serious discussion of the issues. Here's some additional perspective.
In my country of Australia there is no legal impediment to law enforcement administering breath alcohol tests to anyone responsible for the operation of a boat once it's underway -- including while the boat may be drifting. The laws, thresholds and procedures are set state by state, but have been harmonised over time. Breath tests require no probable cause either -- they can be administered 'randomly', or while stopping a vehicle or craft for any other reason, and that has been accepted for forty years now. If while operating a vehicle in Australia, you refuse a lawfully-administered breath test then you may be arrested and administered a blood test instead. (We have saliva tests for drugs too, although they're less reliable.)
Although the same law enforcement bodies administer marine and road breath-tests, the licenses were established separately and even combined licenses are administered separately -- so failing an alcohol test could lose you a boat license without losing a road-driver's license, or vice-versa.
Consequently though, we have no 'Macarena' test anywhere in Australia. By itself, failing such a test would prove nothing in a law court as it doesn't meet our standard for evidence, and to a population that has accepted random breath testing (RBT) for four decades, Macarena tests can look invasive, humiliating and potentially unfair to law-abiding citizens.
Perhaps that's why the humour was immediately apparent to me.
How UNFAIR of you to compare a country (such as Australia) whose government provides adult supervision to one whose government does not / cannot / won't (USA, and especially Florida!).
We have been telling our young adult children since the 2016 election to research alternate countries that work for them, and we'll help them relocate, painful though that is to admit and contemplate.
Curtis wrote:
> UNFAIR of you to compare a country (such as Australia) whose government provides adult supervision
I agree that it's supervision, Curtis. We're subjects as well as citizens, former convicts after all, and our first and only national coup was over rum. Finding adults among the many lifetime politicians in our legislature can be a harder task though.
Among our recreational sailors I'd say it's the mixed bag that it seems to be in other places, just with fewer liveaboards (due to not too many marinas), different boat brands, bigger crocogators, a few great white sharks for variety, and a LOT more sandbars everywhere.
If adult supervision has produced more mature maritime behaviour here then it has yet to register for me. (Nevertheless, Peter's humorous, US-focused articles about conspicuously naive cruisers do make me feel better.)
Regardless, whatever our sailing immaturity, we can blame it less here on beer.
We defense lawyers have always known that the gaze nystagmus test is total bullshit. When doctors do it, they use a special device, a giant protractor with a chin and forehead rest. This enables a precise measurement.
Even a trained medical doctor could not perform the gaze nystagmus test without tools to accurately measure the onset. Here's the catch. EVERYBODY HAS NYSTAGMUS! It is just the point at which it occurs that leads to a diagnosis of impairment. It requires precision, a degree of precision you just cannot get standing in front of someone with no tools or instruments. It is bullshit.
What we need is a pre-arrest breath test. The machines exist, just pass them out,
Just to be clear. You are saying that someone who performs a perfect Macarena should still be required to take a pre-arrest breath test?
Although presumably the new legislation has not yet passed, I'm glad to see that pro-active citizens groups are already teaching revised Floridan boat-safety compliance to children.
https://www.tiktok.com/@mommyofasuperhero/video/7217944877005327658
Here too, a Floridan retirement community at an evening class rehearsing boat safety protocols for a forthcoming marine trip. (Perhaps they weren't aware of the grandparented birthdate clause?)
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1427115090668786