Thank you for posting this. I really wish folks would stop referring to MMC as a "Captain's License". Regardless of tonnage, NMC does not issue Captain Licenses. They issue Merchant Mariner Credentials. The bar to pass is incredibly low. As you pointed out, there is no practical on-the-water exam, and proof of documented experience is primarily honor-based. The sea time requirement is useless as there are no experience requirements in actually operating or navigating a vessel. It's akin to a flight attendant taking a 70 question multiple choice test to get a pilot's license or an automobile passenger getting a driver's license with zero experience behind the wheel.
If those cutting corners are indeed safety risks to others then could those numbers be provided? The Coast Guard must have numbers right? Showing there are more accidents/injuries in the private sector classes vs others.
You give them too much credit. They don't even have stats on the efficacy of random boardings versus probable cause. Another way to look at it is how does the marketplace value a U.S. ticket versus a U.K. certification.
Well I was being a bit tongue in cheek. We readily are asked to trade in liberty for safety but seldomly know if the supposed trade off really is beneficial. Or if it’s the state wanting to increase their bureaucratic market share.
Well you really hit a sore spot with me! I first got my 100 ton in '81, and I haven't upgraded it because I just don't want to deal with USCG crap. (and I have the tonnage & time to upgrade: 2 more circumnavigations since my first license, 8 more transatlantics, and etc.). I've seen lots of '100 ton captains' in St. Thomas, but they don't sail at night and certainly don't go out if it's raining! They do enough day sails out to Buck Island to put snorkelers in the water, and they can get a 100 ton license! and there is a quick way to get your 'sea time' signed that I can never qualify for: being the captains girlfriend. I worked with a crewman with apparently little experience and when I asked 'how did you get a 100 ton license?', he just smiled and said "creative resume' writing". I've got a LOT of similar stories. But that's what the CG wants, I'm not going to play their game. I've been working on sailboats (a "who's who" of sailboats, never on power yachts) since '75 and my last full time yacht employment was in 2018. My latest renewal expires in a couple of years and I think I'm just going to enjoy retirement! Oh, and I have never done one of those 'sea schools'.
Back in my day....you had to sit down with a USCG officer that would review your seatime. In my first interview the officer refused to accept 120 days. He explained that although he was sure I had spent the time actually operating my pleasure craft, that an MMC was a 'commercial grade certification' and they wanted to see professional sea service with notarized documentation. Fortunately I had been working on busy charter vessels and had enough days. So that triggered a second round certifying the vessels log because I was under way over 180 days per year.
Sea School at that time operated like a trade school. The founders were retired coast guard captains. All approvals were from The USCG and all testing was at a regional USCG headquarters. Captain Willy Long would not send you down to New Orleans unless you could do the work. If he sent unqualified candidates the CO would call him and ask what was going on.
My point is, in my opinion, it came off the rails when they out sourced a saftey regulatory function to the private sector where profit becomes the motivating factor.
And yes it does rub me the wrong way when, because of the current system, someone with an RYA near coastal discounts my 1440 days to earn a 500GT All Oceans Master because I did not take a practical on water exam.
I can't let that pass by without commenting: That really is a dumb ass question! Columbus was a master mariner with many sea miles under his belt before he even set out for 'India', and discovered the New World.
My original comment stands on its merit. But I'll tell you, I sailed around the world on a square rigger (deckhand), across the Atlantic as mate on a schooner over, and mate on another schooner returning, plus a lot more miles on other boats in between. and when I went to get a 100 ton license, Coast Guard Baltimore told me "you don't qualify for a license. not enough sea time"......but they commiserated among themselves back in the office and then said they would 'bend the rules' to allow me to get a 100 ton. (that's a direct quote). (was I supposed to offer a cash bribe?). but on the docks in St. Thomas, where they don't sail at night or go out if its raining, you can do enough "sea time" to Buck Island & back to add up to getting a 100 ton license. In my mind, the Coast Guard isn't qualified to carry Columbus's lunchbox, much less qualify him to 'captain' a sailboat.
I did suspect it really was! But I do get my hackles (is that a real word?) up when it comes to USCG licensing, and their apparent affinity for 'unqualified' captains and dubious resume's. Happy sailing to you!
I've got 91 days towards my 360 day requirement. Have taken Starpath courses, which design their curricula around the OUPV question database. Will take the test when I am well and truly ready.
Thank you for posting this. I really wish folks would stop referring to MMC as a "Captain's License". Regardless of tonnage, NMC does not issue Captain Licenses. They issue Merchant Mariner Credentials. The bar to pass is incredibly low. As you pointed out, there is no practical on-the-water exam, and proof of documented experience is primarily honor-based. The sea time requirement is useless as there are no experience requirements in actually operating or navigating a vessel. It's akin to a flight attendant taking a 70 question multiple choice test to get a pilot's license or an automobile passenger getting a driver's license with zero experience behind the wheel.
If those cutting corners are indeed safety risks to others then could those numbers be provided? The Coast Guard must have numbers right? Showing there are more accidents/injuries in the private sector classes vs others.
You give them too much credit. They don't even have stats on the efficacy of random boardings versus probable cause. Another way to look at it is how does the marketplace value a U.S. ticket versus a U.K. certification.
Well I was being a bit tongue in cheek. We readily are asked to trade in liberty for safety but seldomly know if the supposed trade off really is beneficial. Or if it’s the state wanting to increase their bureaucratic market share.
But liberty isn’t fashionable anymore. Anyhoos.
Well you really hit a sore spot with me! I first got my 100 ton in '81, and I haven't upgraded it because I just don't want to deal with USCG crap. (and I have the tonnage & time to upgrade: 2 more circumnavigations since my first license, 8 more transatlantics, and etc.). I've seen lots of '100 ton captains' in St. Thomas, but they don't sail at night and certainly don't go out if it's raining! They do enough day sails out to Buck Island to put snorkelers in the water, and they can get a 100 ton license! and there is a quick way to get your 'sea time' signed that I can never qualify for: being the captains girlfriend. I worked with a crewman with apparently little experience and when I asked 'how did you get a 100 ton license?', he just smiled and said "creative resume' writing". I've got a LOT of similar stories. But that's what the CG wants, I'm not going to play their game. I've been working on sailboats (a "who's who" of sailboats, never on power yachts) since '75 and my last full time yacht employment was in 2018. My latest renewal expires in a couple of years and I think I'm just going to enjoy retirement! Oh, and I have never done one of those 'sea schools'.
Back in my day....you had to sit down with a USCG officer that would review your seatime. In my first interview the officer refused to accept 120 days. He explained that although he was sure I had spent the time actually operating my pleasure craft, that an MMC was a 'commercial grade certification' and they wanted to see professional sea service with notarized documentation. Fortunately I had been working on busy charter vessels and had enough days. So that triggered a second round certifying the vessels log because I was under way over 180 days per year.
Sea School at that time operated like a trade school. The founders were retired coast guard captains. All approvals were from The USCG and all testing was at a regional USCG headquarters. Captain Willy Long would not send you down to New Orleans unless you could do the work. If he sent unqualified candidates the CO would call him and ask what was going on.
My point is, in my opinion, it came off the rails when they out sourced a saftey regulatory function to the private sector where profit becomes the motivating factor.
And yes it does rub me the wrong way when, because of the current system, someone with an RYA near coastal discounts my 1440 days to earn a 500GT All Oceans Master because I did not take a practical on water exam.
Did Christoper Columbus take a captains exam?
I can't let that pass by without commenting: That really is a dumb ass question! Columbus was a master mariner with many sea miles under his belt before he even set out for 'India', and discovered the New World.
So he did or didn’t?
My original comment stands on its merit. But I'll tell you, I sailed around the world on a square rigger (deckhand), across the Atlantic as mate on a schooner over, and mate on another schooner returning, plus a lot more miles on other boats in between. and when I went to get a 100 ton license, Coast Guard Baltimore told me "you don't qualify for a license. not enough sea time"......but they commiserated among themselves back in the office and then said they would 'bend the rules' to allow me to get a 100 ton. (that's a direct quote). (was I supposed to offer a cash bribe?). but on the docks in St. Thomas, where they don't sail at night or go out if its raining, you can do enough "sea time" to Buck Island & back to add up to getting a 100 ton license. In my mind, the Coast Guard isn't qualified to carry Columbus's lunchbox, much less qualify him to 'captain' a sailboat.
It was a tongue in cheek comment. I’m pro liberty.
I did suspect it really was! But I do get my hackles (is that a real word?) up when it comes to USCG licensing, and their apparent affinity for 'unqualified' captains and dubious resume's. Happy sailing to you!
I've got 91 days towards my 360 day requirement. Have taken Starpath courses, which design their curricula around the OUPV question database. Will take the test when I am well and truly ready.